Validation letter #2......can someone post it please.

SilentBob · August 9, 2003

I need the second validation letter...can someone post it?

SilentBob · August 9, 2003

Bump

SassyinAz · August 10, 2003

This is the second, depends on if you got a response or not, otherwise known as the estoppel letter.

CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED #

RE: Dispute Letter

Dear Sir or Madam:

As I have not heard back from you in over 60 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists.

In a good faith effort to resolve this matter amicably, I restate my demand for proof of the debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this matter. Absent such proof, you must terminate this collection action and correct any erroneous reports of this debt as mine.

For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask for the following information:

Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter.

What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?

What is your authorization of law for your collection of this alleged debt?

Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in the state of xxxx.

Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.

You have fifteen (15) days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, hand signed, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error, and that this matter is permanently closed.

Your continued silence is unacceptable. Either provide the proof or correct the record to remove the invalid debt from my credit files with the three primary credit-reporting agencies. You are currently in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act and the Fair Debt Collection Act.

Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $5,000 in damages for the following:

Defamation

Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud

Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act

After obtaining the judgment against your company, I will obtain a Writ of Execution from the Sheriff’s office in your county and I will begin the process of attaching property or funds to satisfy the judgment.

For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status.

Sincerely,

SilentBob · August 10, 2003

I actually received a response at their attempted validation. It was not validation.

Is there another letter if I have received a response?

Thanks

JessicaRabbit88 · August 10, 2003

Bob,

I have a good one for when some sort of attempt has been made, but still not complete validation, but it is at work - so I will post it first thing tomorrow, if I forget, remind me, okay?

Wow that was the longest run-on sentence ...lol,

Jessica

SassyinAz · August 11, 2003

It depends what they sent you, Bob, as well as whether accurately reporting, paid in full, yours/not yours, CA licensed and bonded? inside SOL for enforcement, information required by your state, did you dispute with the CRA's as well -- forcing the 30 days? Is the information being reported as disputed? Do you have copies of your reports to prove it?

ummmmmm, that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

I just read a similar letter by Jess, so definately wait for her to post it.

I saved this, believe it is from FlyingFgr:

As a matter of policy I would not state anything about partial validation. I would re-phrase that part to read something like "The documents you provided are not sifficient for a normally intelligent person to determine the validity of your claim. I specifically require the following"

1 - proof of my legal liability

2- proof of an unpaid debt, including all charges and payments posted against those charges, back to the inception of the alleged account.

3 - proof of your legal right to collect this alleged debt

4 - proof of your legal right to do business in my state

5 - If you do business as a corporation, partnership, LLC, LLP or any other legal entity other than a Proprietorship, proof of the existence of that entity.

6 - If you do business as a proprietorship, proof of your filing of a "doing business as" certificate in both your state and mine.

That should start the fishing trip off well.

This is a response by Tyrelle:

Re: Account #xxxxx

Dear Ms. Mitchell:

I am in receipt of your correspondence postmarked October 17, 2002. Please be advised that your blatant disregard and violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), and my rights as a consumer have caused harm to me by seriously affecting my credit rating, causing the denial of credit, as well as causing me to be charged higher interest rates and unfavorable loan terms.

Your offices have only provided me with partial validation; your offices have not yet provided sufficient evidence that this alleged debt is mine. Provide me with a complete account statement printout, signed contract, a contract giving Holloway Credit Solutions power to collect, and original creditor’s address and telephone number.

I’m sure you are aware of the consequences in violating the FCRA and FDCPA as well as the multiple violations your company is now responsible for, but not limited to:

As per the FDCPA:

§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

( If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

§ 813. Civil liability [15 U.S.C. 1692k]

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --

(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;

(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow

As per the FCRA:

§ 616. Civil liability for willful noncompliance [15 U.S.C. § 1681n]

(a) In general. Any person who willfully fails to comply with any requirement imposed under this title with respect to any consumer is liable to that consumer in an amount equal to the sum of

(1) (A) any actual damages sustained by the consumer as a result of the failure or damages of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000

§ 617. Civil liability for negligent noncompliance [15 U.S.C. § 1681o]

(a) In general. Any person who is negligent in failing to comply with any requirement imposed under this title with respect to any consumer is liable to that consumer in an amount equal to the sum of

(1) any actual damages sustained by the consumer as a result of the failure;

(2) in the case of any successful action to enforce any liability under this section, the costs of the action together with reasonable attorney's fees as determined by the court.

Your company has failed to send the legally required validation of this debt. You have been notified that your actions are detrimental to me and that your company has violated (including but not limited to) the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Your company knew or should have known that the actions taken against me and the information collected about me were inappropriate and damaging to me. Failed to use reasonable care in the course of business and failed to use even minimal procedures to ensure that I was not harmed.

As a result of these blatantly reckless, wanton, and intentional acts, I have suffered and continue to suffer general and specific damages. I am also very upset at your company's intentional infliction of emotional distress, other diminishments of the quality of my life and refusal to follow the law.

Please understand that I am extremely concerned regarding the harmful resultant consequences of the actions your company has taken. Please be advised that, if this matter is not resolved expeditiously, I will take any and all necessary steps to protect my rights.

If you wish to resolve this matter, this will be your last opportunity to do so. You have 10 days of this tracked notice to provide me with complete validation of this alleged debt. If you are unable to do so I demand deletion of this item from my credit file. Forward a letter to me via facsimile and via regular U.S. mail stating it has been removed and will not reappear on my credit reports again. I will accept nothing less.

Please be aware if this account is not completely validated or deleted I will file a formal complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, the state’s Banking and Finance Bureau, and the Better Business Bureau. Also, note that section 1681s-2( of the Fair Credit Reporting Act creates a cause of action for a consumer against a furnisher of erroneous credit information (Nelson v. Chase Manhattan). If left un-validate, if your offices remove the collection from my credit report, I will not pursue any further action to re-collect money that was paid on my behalf.

For the purposes of 15 U.S.C. 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. All future communications with me must be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter.

Thank you and I look forward to your resolving this most expeditiously.

Sincerely,

This is by Grendel version:

CA name & address - attn: legal dept

Re.: Settlement deadline: July 14, 2003, 5:00 p.m. EDT

Account #XXXXX

Dear Mr. Sun:

On June 19th, 2003 you received my credit reporting dispute and validation request. You failed to respond with sufficient evidence that this alleged debt is mine. Your office received a second request for validation on June 30, 2003 citing various FDCPA & FCRA violations that your company is now responsible for. Please be advised that your failure to respond with proper validation and failure to provide notice of my dispute to the credit bureaus is in violation of the FDCPA:

Excerpt from the Cass (12-23-97) FTC Opinion letter at http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/cass.htm

" Of course, if a dispute is received after a debt has been reported to a consumer reporting agency, the debt collector is obligated by Section 1692e( to inform the consumer reporting agency of the dispute.."

You also violated the FCRA § 623. Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies [15 U.S.C. § 1681s-2]

"(3) Duty to provide notice of dispute. If the completeness or accuracy of any information furnished by any person to any consumer reporting agency is disputed to such person by a consumer, the person may not furnish the information to any consumer reporting agency without notice that such information is disputed by the consumer. "

I am hereby offering to settle your FCRA and FDCPA violations prior to legal action with the following terms:

1) You delete this account from all my credit reports and fax evidence of your bureau notifications to me at (XXX) XXX-XXXX

2) You agree to close this account and not to sell it to any other collectors.

3) You arrange for payment of $1000 for my damages.

Please respond via fax to (XXX) XXX-XXXX by 5:00 p.m. EDT, Monday, July 14, 2003.

Sincerely,

My full legal name

c: via fax to FTC at 202-326-2012

This is fave Marie:

If I don't hear after the second letter I send something like this: (and I normally add in specifics of what's been going on, etc). I always describe what they're doing that's wrong, and WHAT I Want them TO DO. I really tend to spell it out. Here's a sample. Hope this answers the questions. I'm sure the experts can add quite a lot to these posts

Addresses etc

Your firm has failed to send the legally required validation of this debt. You have been notified that your actions are detrimental to me and that your firm has violated (including but not limited to) the Consumer Credit Protection Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Your firm knew or should have known that the actions taken against me and the information collected about me was inappropriate and damaging to me.

Failed to use reasonable care in the course of business and failed to use even minimal procedures to ensure that I was not harmed.

Communicated and are continuing to communicate incorrect and defamatory information to third parties including but not limited to, Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion.

As a result of these blatantly reckless, wanton, and intentional acts, I have suffered and continue to suffer general and specific damages. I am also very upset at your firm's intentional infliction of emotional distress and at the other diminishments of the quality of my life.

I am now demanding the immediate and complete removal of this tradeline from my credit reports (Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion).

As I am currently attempting to apply for credit, time is of the essence. Please understand that I am extremely concerned about the consequences of the actions your firm is having on my life. Please be advised that, if this matter is not resolved by xxx, I will take any and all necessary steps to protect my rights.

Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely

xxx

You could just resend your first validation letter, putting second request in big ole red letters at the top.

Which direction you take, depends on the answers to the questions above, especially with regard to whether or not you disputed with the CRA's.

Clarification needed there.

Sassy

JessicaRabbit88 · August 11, 2003

Okay you will need to modify ofcourse, but here it is:

JessicaRabbit
123 Cherry Hill

Anytown, UT 12345

CA

Scum Lane

Not My Town, NJ 08002

June 18, 2003

RE: Dispute Letter of 05/15/03

Dear Sir/Madame:

I have not heard back from you [or I have not received validation from you] in over 30 days regarding my registered notice of dispute dated 05/15/03. You have also not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt. Your continued silence is unacceptable.

For the record, I state again that as I have no account with you, nor am I your customer, nor have I entered into a contract with you, I must ask to attach copies for the following information in addition to the form provided at the end of this letter:

 Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect on this alleged debt

 Copies of all notices of repossession, proof of legal delivery of said notices

 Full accounting of the proceeds of repossession sale, and proof of sale being held in a commercially reasonable manner

 Account history including beginning balance, every payment received and date it was posted to the account, any fees charged to the account, interest and interest rate charged to the account, along with any other account information you may have available.

 Agreement that bears the signature of the alleged debtor wherein she agreed to pay the creditor.

 Any insurance claims which have been made by any creditor regarding this account

 Any judgments which have been obtained by any creditor regarding this account

You have fifteen (15) days from receipt of this notice to respond. Your failure to respond in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you sent your letter(s) in error. If in fact this error has been made, remove the tradeline from my credit files and this matter is permanently closed. [Fix this sentence, I tried modifying it, but isn't going so well]

Failure to respond within 15 days of receipt of this registered letter or failure of the removal of the incorrect information from my credit reports will force me to consider legal action in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking damages [insert your own violations here](http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#813) (http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm#611) for the following:

Violations of the FDCPA for the following:

Unfair practices (http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#808)

False or misleading representation (http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm#807)

Violation of the FCRA because you state that you are responsible for how the tradeline is being reported to the credit-reporting agencies, you are also in violations for the following:

§ 623. Responsibilities of furnishers of information to consumer reporting agencies [15 U.S.C. § 1681s-2] (http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm#623)

For the purposes of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should any further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status.

I affirm under penalty of perjury under the Laws of the Land for the United States of America, that the foregoing is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Sincerely,

JessicaRabbit

Cc:

Attorney General

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Debt Validation Form

Questionnaire to be returned to me for Account # XXXXXXXXX

Original Creditor's Name:

Name of Debtor:

Address of Debtor:

Balance of Account:

Date you acquired this debt:

This Debt was: assigned purchased

Please indicated any credit bureaus to which you have reported negative marks:

Experian ______

Equifax ______

TransUnion ______

Good luck,

Jessica

SassyinAz · October 20, 2004

Additional validation #2 follow-up letters, thanks CramIt:

http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...pic.php?t=60083

Sassy

Gate13 · October 21, 2004

As I have not heard back from you in over 60 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists.

This letter is a joke. I cannot believe anyone would even consider using it. Estoppel by silence would never apply in this situation. The CA never made a promise to the consumer, the consumer would have to take an action relying solely on the promise (never made) by the CA, the CA would have to break the promise (which was never made), and most importantly, the consumer would have to suffer real damages (not theoretical, hypothetical or future/potential damages) as a direct result of relying on a promise that was broken.

Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter.

1692e covers false/misleading statemens and misrepresentations. 1692f outlines unfair practices. Neither statute mentions the words "evidence" or "authorization" and the plain language meaning makes it clear that neither have nothing to do with evidence of authorization, which is a fragmentary sentence. Authorization of what? Gun ownership? Permit to operate a food service?

Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud? I'm sure a judge in federal court would waste no time dismissing that claim.

"...will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $5,000 in damages for the following" What a dead give-away. The English translation would be "I am way too lazy and stupid to spend 20 minutes reading the federal rules of procedure and I'm praying you don't remove it to federal court where I would be totally lost and lose the case on a technicality."

It would be much easier to just write a letter telling them it's been 90 days and they haven't repsonded, therefore they violated 1692g. At least there's case law on that.

LKH · October 21, 2004

You were banned once already TowerRat/gate13/rex feral. I don't appreciate your hit and run posts. Never respond when questioned about something you've posted. You are the joke. Don't re-register.

SassyinAz · October 21, 2004

As I have not heard back from you in over 60 days regarding my notice of dispute dated <insert date>, and you have not supplied the demanded proof of the alleged debt, under the doctrine of estoppel by silence, Engelhardt v Gravens (Mo) 281 SW 715, 719, I may presume that no proof of the alleged debt, nor therefore any such debt, in fact exists.

This letter is a joke. I cannot believe anyone would even consider using it. Estoppel by silence would never apply in this situation. The CA never made a promise to the consumer, the consumer would have to take an action relying solely on the promise (never made) by the CA, the CA would have to break the promise (which was never made), and most importantly, the consumer would have to suffer real damages (not theoretical, hypothetical or future/potential damages) as a direct result of relying on a promise that was broken.

Please evidence your authorization under 15 USC 1692 (e) and 15 USC 1692 (f) in this alleged matter.

1692e covers false/misleading statemens and misrepresentations. 1692f outlines unfair practices. Neither statute mentions the words "evidence" or "authorization" and the plain language meaning makes it clear that neither have nothing to do with evidence of authorization, which is a fragmentary sentence. Authorization of what? Gun ownership? Permit to operate a food service?

Negligent Enablement of Identity Fraud? I'm sure a judge in federal court would waste no time dismissing that claim.

"...will result in a small claims action against your company. I will be seeking $5,000 in damages for the following" What a dead give-away. The English translation would be "I am way too lazy and stupid to spend 20 minutes reading the federal rules of procedure and I'm praying you don't remove it to federal court where I would be totally lost and lose the case on a technicality."

It would be much easier to just write a letter telling them it's been 90 days and they haven't repsonded, therefore they violated 1692g. At least there's case law on that.

blah, blah, blah

The letter is here because it is the original validation #2 letter. It is commonly, frequently and successfully used by a lot of people and posted at every online board.

This thread is NOT a discussion about the merits of any of the letters posted, it is a thread providing examples of varied validation #2 follow-up letters.

Sassy

TeeSharice · October 21, 2004

monica · January 4, 2005

Can I send this estoppel letter after 45 days or does it have to be 60 days from the day i sent the DV.

rolsdoll · January 4, 2005

You can send it at any point you like.

Bobbi

JeepChick · January 9, 2005

posting to keep track of this thread.

cotterpin · January 9, 2005

Additional validation #2 follow-up letters, thanks CramIt:
http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...pic.php?t=60083

Sassy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60083

Updated link since board change over

beyondweb · March 2, 2005

You were banned once already TowerRat/gate13/rex feral. I don't appreciate your hit and run posts. Never respond when questioned about something you've posted. You are the joke. Don't re-register.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The post you're referring to appears to only be providing an opposing point of view re: credit law (although he/she could have been a little nicer). I def wouldn't call it a "hit and run" as it's well thought out, concise and it applies to posts within the thread. Why are you taking it personally when others (including myself) could be helped by this posters comments?

Although you imply that the poster was banned, I hope this wasn't the case. All points of view and expertise re: credit law should be welcome on this board for the good of all.

Edited March 2, 2005 by beyondweb

aracko · April 10, 2005

Thanks - but if we dont really want to sue them, and just want a debt off our report, do these letters still work?

recruiting · April 10, 2005

Yes, that is usually the result.. It usually you will never have to take them to court BECAUSE>>>>>>. This is what goes down most of the time,

A)Ignore you

B)remove the entry on your CR <---good chance!!

C)Ignore you some more

D)keep reporting it AND ignore you

E)send it back to the OC <---not usually (in my experience anyway)

F)resell the debt<----Really good chance

G)you'll have to DV them again and file a BBB and AG complaint and THEN it

gets removed and resold

H)You forget about the entire credit repair thing go to bed "hoping" things are better in the mornin'!!

April 10, 2005

Trying to keep track of this convo..lol (thats why I am posting)

bizadcredit · April 10, 2005

Trying to stay on top of this post!!!!!!

natenatmom · April 19, 2005

If I DV'd without sending it CMRRR (big mistake, I know... before I found CB) and they didn't respond, can I go ahead and send this second letter or do I need to send the first one again with CMRRR before I move on to this?

pryan67 · April 19, 2005

send the second one...

thestudentisready · April 19, 2005

subscribing...

tootie357 · May 5, 2005

do i send the second letter when the ca has not validated but the jive turkeys pulled my credit report?

and see, i was gonna pay the original creditor and i still might but these ca's are getting on my nerves and i cant have anything mess up my chances of getting a mtg right now

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Validation letter #2......can someone post it please.

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